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engine timing check

Messages 1 to 17 of 17.

phippstony
Joined Jan 2006
97 posts

hi all, i decdided the other day to embark into unknown territory after the head gasket went on my rover 214. obviously the plan being take the head off, get it skimmed etc etc and then put it back on. i've had little trouble removing the head and it was a lot less work than i expected. one thing that is troubling me at the moment and to be honest i'm getting increasingly worried all the time is the engine timing when the head goes back on.before i actually turn the key once its all back together, is there a sure way to double check that the timing is all in? if so could somebody please give me some detailed info on how to do this. the simpler, the better. thanks, tony

Friday, 25 May 2007

Discussion Archived

BrianM
Joined Jan 2004
281 posts

Ideally you should have a cam locking bloc. But you can do this without it.
if you go on the sealy tools web site they show you the timing marks you need. I'm sure someone else will come along shortly & give you a link to a site to see this. As long as you turn the engine over a number of times by hand & check all is well then you should be ok. Be aware that if you are one tooth out the engine will run but the emmissions will be out & you won't get it through the mot. I know because I bought a car with emmission problems & it was days before I found the fault. Most annoying after paying a diagnostics shop a small fortune to change the lamda sensor for no reason:(

Friday, 25 May 2007

Discussion Archived

phippstony
Joined Jan 2006
97 posts

ok thanks for that......but what about actually starting from scratch if you get what i mean......if the timing happens to be well out how would i start from scratch to set it? is it to do with setting the no.1 piston to TDC or sometrhing like that? cheers, tony

Friday, 1 June 2007

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pug1
Joined Jan 2006
560 posts

i assume the engine is the twincam honda engine if so then i suggest you call out a mobile mech as the set up is a real pain to carry out. as this engine is an interferance engine meaning if you get it wrong and you will you will destroy the engine.


A few words to help another is free.

Saturday, 2 June 2007

Discussion Archived

phippstony
Joined Jan 2006
97 posts

no its not the honda engine......its the rover k-series 1.4 16v twin cam engine (98). does this make aany difference? i have got kind of a mate who was a mechanic, do u think it would b worth asking him to have a look once its all back together?

Sunday, 3 June 2007

Discussion Archived

BrianM
Joined Jan 2004
281 posts

You just need to ensure that all timing marks are in alignment. The crank mark on the front pully is not at tdc, this ensures that you can turn the cams without the valves hitting the pistions. You would normally lock the cams in place with a tool. If not it is possible with a spanner on one of the cams to turn it until lined up, slip the belt on then turn the next cam in line, slip the belt on. This is some what tricky but can be done. Check in a manual ot the sealy tools web site for timing marks. As long as you turn the engine over by hand after checking the tension is correct & timing marks are correct & that the valves are not hitting the pistons, then you are good to turn it over on the key.

Monday, 4 June 2007

Discussion Archived

pug1
Joined Jan 2006
560 posts

yes the K16-1.4 series engine is a honda unit ive checked my autodata and the setting up procedure is involving at best as there are various marks on the cam's for different settings and unless you use the correct tools you will have problems if i were you i would pay a mechanic to do the job that way you will have a garrantee if you do it and balls it you've lost the car. well ive said my piece its up to you. but as a rule of thumb i advise all diyers against this type of job.


A few words to help another is free.

Monday, 4 June 2007

Discussion Archived

phippstony
Joined Jan 2006
97 posts

ah right ok.......i always assumed that honda made the pre '95 engines (D series) which were also used in the honda concerto and then rover developed the k-series engine for post 95 models

Tuesday, 5 June 2007

Discussion Archived

BrianM
Joined Jan 2004
281 posts

The K series engine is the Rover designed engine.
The Honda engine was mostly put in cars with auto gearbox.
They are different engines. Honda went with a distributor.
Rovers have a crank sensor & Rover/Motorola Modular Engine Management System (mems) ecu controled ignition & injection system.
You can check it out here:
http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?enginekseriesf.htm

Tuesday, 5 June 2007

Discussion Archived

pug1
Joined Jan 2006
560 posts

DOHC(K16-1.4) 1995-1999 SOHC (K8-1.4) 1999 on. both were honda unit's ive checked the web site and it dont tally for this mans car. trust me when i say the car has a honda unit.


A few words to help another is free.

Tuesday, 5 June 2007

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phippstony
Joined Jan 2006
97 posts

i would tend to agree with brian im sorry to say......i've tried finding info on the engines being honda and can't seem to find them anywhere.......all the the info says manufactured by powertrain or something for rover group. where does your info come from??? i'm not saying you're worng im just curious to find out who actually made them....and if it was honda, i cannot belive that they would manufacture those poorly designed cylinder heads!!!!

Tuesday, 5 June 2007

Discussion Archived

pug1
Joined Jan 2006
560 posts

my info comes from autodata. the engines were desinged by honda and built in england under licence to rover. anyway thats not the problem as the guy who owns the car in question needs advice on fitting a cambelt i gave my advice and thats if in doubt DONT DO IT. as the fitting guide is extencive.


A few words to help another is free.

Tuesday, 5 June 2007

Discussion Archived

BrianM
Joined Jan 2004
281 posts

I am sorry but you are very much misinformed.
Yes the car body & interior was a joint venture & mostly designed in japan, But the K series engine was not.

Powertrain designed the K series engine & was part of Rover.
You can also go to http://www.powertrainltd.com/ & read up about the K series.
Cut from http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?r8storyf.htm

"the 1983/84 BL corporate plan had required the additional borrowing of £1.5 billion in order to see through the development of the next generation of cars and their engines. £250 million of this would be swallowed up by the K-series engine development programme - and it made an appealing economy for the government to suggest that BL could in fact use a Honda engine, thereby reducing the proposed investment.

Maintaining independence from Honda

IT may have seemed like a good idea to the Government, but Ray Horrocks and Harold Musgrove certainly did not agree - both fearing that Austin Rover would have lost a great deal of their independence if they no longer produced their own mid-market engine. Musgrove was especially passionate about this - and barracked the then trade and industry Norman Tebbitt into seeing the BL point of view: it worked - Tebbitt was persuaded and the government capitulated, allowing the continued funding of the K-series."

Cut from
http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?r8storyf.htm

"Rover justifiably felt that they would be in a position to back up their ambition of producing a “premium” range of medium sized cars. Interestingly given the excellence of the K-Series engine, the British power units would no longer be the weaker link in the engine range; in fact, if anything, the Honda engine (derived from the Civic Shuttle) would be put in the shade. It is not often that once can say that Honda had been beaten in terms of a four-cylinder power unit – that situation would be turned around later, when the Honda CR-X would find its way under the bonnet of the GTi.

After the £250 million expenditure on the K-Series engine, Austin Rover, had no resources to produce their own gearbox....."

I dont have the autodata book you are reading from so can't comment on it but try looking the details up in another reference medium.

Tuesday, 5 June 2007

Discussion Archived

pug1
Joined Jan 2006
560 posts

it looks like the engine is in deed a brittish design. how ever this info does tell you how to prevent head gaskit failure the easiest way is to remove the spring loaded ball valve.

The K-Series engine is a series of engines built by Powertrain Ltd, a sister company of MG Rover. The engine was built in two forms; a straight-4 cylinder , available with SOHC and DOHC, ranging from 1.1 L to 1.8 L, and the KV6 V6 variation.

The K-Series was introduced in 1988 by Rover Group as a powerplant for the Rover Metro car. It was revolutionary in that it was the first volume production implementation of the low pressure sand casting technique. This works by injecting liquid aluminium into an upturned sand mould from below. In this way any oxide film always remains on the surface of the casting and is not stirred into the casting structure. This production technology overcame many of the inherent problems of casting aluminium components, and consequently permitted lower casting wall thicknesses and higher strength to weight ratios.

The engine was introduced in 1.1 L single overhead cam, and 1.4 L dual overhead cam versions. The engines were unique in being held together as a sandwich of components by long through-bolts which held the engine under compression.

These two types of head that were bolted to the common block were designated K8 (8 valves) and K16 (16 valves). A later head design also incorporated a Rover-designed Variable Valve Control (VVC) unit (derived from an expired AP patent). This allowed more power to be developed without compromising low-speed torque and flexibility. The VVC system constantly alters the cam period, resulting in a remarkably flexible drive - the torque curve of a VVC K-series engine is virtually flat throughout the rev range and power climbs steadily with no fall-off whatsoever until the rev limiter kicks in at 7,200 rpm.

The 1.8 litre versions are often used in kit cars and are starting to be used in hot rods, especially as a popular swap into the MG Midget, Morris Minor and the Caterham versions of the Lotus 7.

By comparison, the V6 engines are more conventional engines that do not make use of the through bolts to hold the head to the block.

Contents [hide]
1 K-Series problems
2 1100
3 1400
4 1600
5 1800

[edit] K-Series problems
The engine's head-gasket was made out of an innovative silicone-type substance rather than the more traditional materials. However the cylinder head waterways were poorly machined and the thermostat was placed in a less than optimum position. These factors often resulted in head-gasket failure, particularly in larger vehicles such as the Land Rover Freelander.

In these applications the greater body weight caused the engine to heat-up too quickly compared to the rest of the system. The thermostat would then open and a sudden rush of cooler water would enter the head causing temperature distortion.

This was relieved to a certain extent by a special pressure release thermostat which, with the aid of a spring loaded valve, allowed a small amount of cool water to enter the head so that the engine warmed-up a little slower and more evenly. However, the optimum solution of moving the thermostat to the outflow from the head, allowing the rest of the water system to warm-up with the engine, was never implemented.

Another modification to reduce chance of the head-gasket failing again, is to insert steel dowels into the cyliner block when changing the head-gasket which renforces the new gasket.

More recently, Land Rover have released a reinforced MLS (Multi-Layer Steel) head gasket for the in-line four cylinder, and 24 valve V6 versions of the K-Series engine, which until mid-2005 were fitted to the petrol variants of their Freelander model. A modified oil rail was also developed to be used in conjunction with the gasket when fitted. Although only time will tell as to whether the improved design will cure this fault of the K-Series engine, many professionals and enthusiasts now recommend the fitment of this new design over the OE standard gasket as fitted by MG-Rover, especially in models such as the MG F/TF and Freelander, where the applications are at their most stressful.

[edit] 1100
All 1100 engines displace 1.1 L (1120 cc/68 in³). Three variations were created:

SOHC K8 8-valve, Carburettor, 60 hp (44 kw)
SOHC K8 8-valve, SPI, 60 hp (44 kw)
DOHC K16 16-valve, MPI, 75 hp (55 kW)
Cars that came with the 1100:

Rover Metro

Rover 100
Rover 200
Rover 25

[edit] 1400
All 1400 engines displace 1.4 L (1396 cc/85 in³). Five variations were created:

SOHC K8 8-valve, Carburettor, 75 hp (55 kW)
SOHC K8 8-valve, SPI, 75 hp (55 kW)
SOHC K8 8-valve, MPI, 75 hp (55 kW)
DOHC K16 16-valve, SPI, 90 hp (66 kW)
DOHC K16 16-valve, MPI, 103 hp (76 kW)
Cars that came with the 1400:

Rover Metro
Rover 100
Rover 200
Rover 25
Rover 400
Rover 45
Rover Streetwise
MG ZR
MG ZS - Ireland only.
Caterham Seven
FSO Polonez Caro/Atu

[edit] 1600
All 1600 engines displace 1.6 L (1588 cc/96 in³). Two variations were created:

DOHC K16 16-valve, MPI, 109 hp (80 kW)
DOHC K16 16-valve, MPI, 111 hp (82 kW)
Cars that came with the 1600:

Rover 200
Rover 25
Rover Streetwise
Rover 400
Rover 45
MG ZS
MG F
MG TF
Caterham Seven

[edit] 1800
All 1800 engines displace 1.8 L (1795 cc/109 in³). Six variations were created:

DOHC K16 16-valve, MPI, 117 to 120 hp (86 to 88 kW)
DOHC K16 16-valve, MPI, 136 hp (100 kW)
DOHC K16 16-valve, MPI, VVC, 145 hp (107 kW)
DOHC K16 16-valve, MPI, VVC, 160 hp (118 kW)
DOHC K16 16-valve, MPI, turbocharged, 150 to 190 hp (110 to 118 kW)
DOHC K16 VHPD - Very High Performance Derivative 16-valve, MPI, VVC, 177 hp (130 kW) (Lotus version) (Uses VVC head, has big valves, but with fixed cam timing - No development input was requested from Rover)
Cars that came with the 1800:

Rover 200
Rover 25
Rover 45
Rover Streetwise
Rover 75
MG ZR
MG ZS
MG ZT
MG F
MG TF
Lotus Elise
Land Rover Freelander
Caterham Seven
Ariel Atom
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_K_engine"

Wednesday, 6 June 2007

Discussion Archived

BGRuncorn
Joined Jun 2007
3 posts

Hi,
Have you sorted your timing? if not, let me know and i'll explain in laymens jargon. (Being a layman but having done a few!)
Bill.

Tuesday, 12 June 2007

Discussion Archived

phippstony
Joined Jan 2006
97 posts

no i haven't sorted it yet.....i would be greatfull if you could explain it to me! the more laymens the better!

Tuesday, 12 June 2007

Discussion Archived

BGRuncorn
Joined Jun 2007
3 posts

OK, here goes, with the crankshft pulley still fitted, the timing mark should be lined with the line moulded on the bottom cambelt cover. This is quite awkward to see and my preference is to remove the crankshaft pulley, where you will see two dots under the pulley on the end of the crankshaft. These should be lined with one either side of the line on the casing. This times the block to 90 degrees before top dead centre. This stops the valves from touching the pistons. The heads (presuming 16v). there is a timing mark on the camshaft rear cover. both camshaft timing marks should line up with this line, putting the lines on both camshaft sprockets directly opposite each other, and aligned horizontally with the top face of the cylinder head. Make sure the word Exhaust is pointing towards the rear of the car. (I think the words will be up side down.) Hope this helps, any queries, let me know.
Bill.

Tuesday, 12 June 2007

Discussion Archived

Messages 1 to 17 of 17.


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